Talk:Zurvan
Zurvan's lightning attack doesn't target each 'third' of the battlefield, it always target the third Kerrigan is in. Going back and forth the same two thirds make Zurvan ignore the other third completely. I'm not sure the intention here is to give detailed explanation such as this but I just thought the information here isn't quite correct. :Confirmed, Sign your posts, SoulFilcher.SuperPrototype (talk) 16:02, May 13, 2013 (UTC) Zurvan's Age and New Timeline Info So... I'm currently checking through different descriptions in the campaign through the Galaxy Editor, and I found this description in Zurvan's wireframe: "An ancient Primal Zerg of untold power that has survived for millions of years." I guess this tells us not only how long the Xel'naga were experimenting on the Zerg, but it also tells us that the Aeon of Strife started millions of years ago. --Shadow Archon (talk) 23:09, May 1, 2015 (UTC) :It can be incorporated where appropriate. Map editor ref can be used.--Hawki (talk) 23:16, May 1, 2015 (UTC) ::Bit of an issue though - the manual states that the AoS lasted thousands of years. Zurvan's age does imply the millions timeframe, but it's concivable that Zurvan is just that old before the xel'naga arrived. At the least, the millennia timeframe is far more reasonable for the AoS lasting than millions of years.--Hawki (talk) 02:12, May 2, 2015 (UTC) ::: Hmm. How does that work? :::The Zerg were still in their larvae form when the Xel'naga arrived, where they acted as Yeerk/Goa'uld parasites. It isn't until a few generations after the Zerg were experimented on that they took the form of their hosts in a more permanent fashion, where the host itself was "Zerg" rather than a puppet controlled by a Zerg in their head. :::Are we going with the idea that Zurvan was one of the first Larvae and managed to survive for millions of years before the Xel'naga arrived? Would he even have the intelligence to be Zurvan for millions of years? Would that actually count if he wasn't sapient until the Xel'naga arrived? :::I mean, technically, the fact "The Aeon of Strife lasted thousands of years" is still correct even if it lasted an OoM more... :::Beyond that source, James Waugh in the community corner interview at the last Blizzcon stated that the Tal'Darim were separated from mainstream Protoss society millions of years ago: :::"You'll know who the Tal'Darim are. You are going to know their entire culture, and how they think differently than the Protoss because they've separated and went away with Amon millions of years ago. Their culture is completely distinct." :::Which would imply to me, given the state of the Tal'Darim at least psionic wise, that they were separated after the majority of the psionic experiments on the Protoss as a whole, and would have to involve Amon being present at Aiur since he does go to Zerus with the rest of the Xel'naga. :::And...well...I didn't really want to bring this up...but he also seemingly states that the mainstream Protoss Culture also existed for millions of years: :::"So, thematically, what was interesting to me, I really think this is a campaign, narratively, about a race that needs to change. This is an ancient race that has been bound to a thinking that really has served its time. It's Millions of Millions of years you know. These are creatures that live a thousand years." :::I think he's talking about the Khala specifically there...which really throws a wrench into everything. :::It could be hyperbole, but I don't know. It kind of blows the former time-frame I had for Protoss civilization in mind completely away. --Shadow Archon (talk) 02:34, May 2, 2015 (UTC) I'm aware of the Tal'darim millions figure (and the Waugh interview) and it's been incorporated into the respective articles. Protoss (evolutionary) history can stretch back that far without issue. However, the AoS, as a whole, is far more iffy, with phrases like "entire generations of protoss" and "driven by centuries of unthinking hatred." The coup de grace however, comes with the phrase that "for the first time in thousands of years, the protoss psionic link was accessed." This leaves very little wriggle room as losing the link is the proverbial spark that kicks off the entire thing. Also makes sense that the xel'naga need to spend much less time on the zerg than protoss given how evolution works (rate of reproduction and whatnot). ::The main focus with the Waugh interview wasn't the Tal'darim statement though. I already noticed you included that. It's Jame Waugh stating the Khalai Protoss were around for millions of millions of years with them bound to the Khala. Which would technically mean that the Aeon of Strife could take place over thousands of years, but you still have millions of years in-between then and modern day after the AoS ended. ::Also, I think when using statements such as centuries, generations, and thousands, they technically can be just hyperbole for a "long long time" and don't in of themselves contradict or state a firm concrete date to go off of. They did say Amon was older than the universe for example. Do we take this at face-value and assume he is literally older than the universe? Or just that it is hyperbole for "really really old?" ::Not to mention that generations has been used in relation to Nerazim history after their banishment, and that firmly takes place within one millennium. So, Protoss generations do heavily overlap with their lifespan.--Shadow Archon (talk) 03:47, May 2, 2015 (UTC) So, yes. On one hand, there's little ambiguity in my mind that the AoS does last for millennia, and there's no hard statement to suggest otherwise. The Zurvan thing is iffy as well. But the thing is that these are two separate facts - it's not a Korhal case where we have two sets of facts depicting the same event, but otherwise two facts that exist in isolation. We know that the primal zerg are effectively immortal as long as they keep consuming, and that pattern of consumption did exist for the insectoid forms even before they developed the ability to burrow into other fauna. So while it's dubious, it's theoretically possible that Zurvan is indeed that old. ::It seems odd to me that we are talking about the idea that Zurvan was millions of years old strictly as a Larvae, while the time he spent in his body we see in HotS is less than one percent of his entire life-span. We're talking .1 % of his lifespan here. ::That's frankly a ridiculous idea to me. Especially because I don't think the Zerg were even sapient until the Xel'naga came along. Zurvan can't be millions of years old if Zurvan didn't exist as a sapient life-form for millions of years... ::This is getting a bit into speculation territory, which is beyond the confines of the wiki... At this point, the best solution is to just ask Brian Kindregan.--Shadow Archon (talk) 03:47, May 2, 2015 (UTC) At the end of the day, it's the neutral course we have to go for. One source states that the AoS lasts thousands of years, another that Zurvan is millions of years old. While dubious, neither are inherantly contradictory, so are best presented neutrally in isolation.--Hawki (talk) 03:15, May 2, 2015 (UTC) ::Oh, I understand that. Blizzard has a non-trump canon policy. I've known that since I've read Queen of Blades. The main thing here is how do we fit in James Waugh's statement about the Khalai specifically being around for millions of years? Does that form a contradiction at all that we need to note? ::Sorry about splitting your post like that. I was trying to focus on each paragraph individually. --Shadow Archon (talk) 03:47, May 2, 2015 (UTC) Please see here for further discussion